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Upgrading to lithium battery?

39K views 57 replies 18 participants last post by  CDN Duke 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Swapping out your OEM battery for a Lithium Ion-unit is an excellent upgrade, with the only downside being the higher cost of the new battery. I am planning to do the same. There seems to be a consensus that Anti-Gravity may be the best made of the numerous US-made lithium-ion batteries.
 
#3 ·
I put a Shorai in my Mini Duke shortly after I got the motorcycle. I may have written down how much the weight difference is, but it is, as said earlier, around 6 pounds. For those of us that like the stock exhaust, but want the lightest 390, the Shorai is a good alternative.

I was once on a 250 KLX Kawasaki, in Eglin AFB. That's in sandy Florida, panhandle. I fell off the bike midstream, drowning it in the process. If I would have had a lead/acid battery, I'd have been in deep doo doo. It took a LOT of cranking to get the ol KLX going again. Thank goodness I had a Shorai. 6 of my 7 bikes have Shorais. I can't say enough good things about them.
 
#5 ·
What is the part number & price for the shorai battery to suit the 390 Duke? also what do they weigh?

Here in Australia the SSB Lithium Ion Ultralite batteries are reliable & reasonably priced, I have just fitted one in my 1290 Superduke

The SSB Li to suit the 390 Duke>

SSB PowerSport > Products > Product List

As you can see it is made by Skyrich, same battery>

YTX9-BS Lithium Ion Battery | SkyrichBattery.com

Another option for those that dont want to (or need to?) spend as much for the same thing
 
#8 ·
I installed the anti gravity battery mainly to free up space for the installation of power commander and auto tune modules neatly in the battery compartment.
The weight saving was a bonus.
The bike starts easy every time and I only ride it once or twice a week being winter here in Australia.
 
#9 ·
Which Antigravity battery model is the correct one for the 390 Duke? I don't see our bike specifically listed on the A-G website.

Also, I remember considerable discussion, at least early on in the development of Li batteries, that there was degraded performance compared to lead-acid in cold temperatures. (I believe this is still true for phones and cameras.) I read that allowing the headlight to be on for a couple minutes warms the battery enough to allow the juice to flow.

Comments?
 
#11 ·
DANGER and DIY battery pack

Thank you for the tips to save some weight. I was thinking thou.

All Lithium batteries I have looked at does not seem to have a BMS (battery monitoring system). And many of the manufacturers don't specify the battery chemical type. That means If they use lithium polymer or lithium Ion batteries without a BMS they are able to catch fire if the pack becomes in balanced or the voltage regulator breaks and puts out more than 14.5Volts. YOU DON'T WANT THAT!!

The logical is that they use LiFePo4 chemistry battery types that wont catch fire that easy. And if they don't use a BMS in the pack they should make it a 4 cell pack. 3.3V x 4 = 13.2V nominal.

So a LiFePo4 -4 cell pack should be charged to 4 x cell maximum voltage = 4 x 3.6V = 14.4V That is about what the voltage regulator should put out from the bike. (I have not tested on my bike!!)

--> If that is the case you are able to easily build your own LiFePo4 pack really cheap without a BMS and plug it to the bike. Or buy a hobby LiFePo4 4cell pack of the shell and plug it in to the bike.

For example, this pack that should be able to start a bike with 160A: ZIPPY Flightmax 4200mAh 4S2P 30C LiFePo4 Pack
Spec:
Capacity: 4200mAh
Voltage: 4S2P / 13.2v
Discharge: 30C Constant / 40C Burst
Max Charge Rate: 2C
Weight: 558g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 140mm x 45mm x 46mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 5.5mm Bullet-Connector



Am I wrong, did any body test this??>:D

 
#25 ·
DIY Battery

Hello again. I just wanted to tell you guys I made a DIY LiFePo4 lithium starting battery from A123 cells and a hard case for it. Cells can be found quite sheep I think but I bought them at Conrad to get them fast. It was about half the price than buying a A123 cell battery anyways and I am sitting at home, bored because I made surgery in my shoulder. You are welcome to use the drawing if you think you are up for a DIY battery. A 3D printer is needed if you need the hard case thou. Cells are connected 2x4S with balance plug for yearly maintenance.
Link --> 12V Motorcycle starter battery, 8S Lithium 26650 cell, hard case by bofred - Thingiverse


Ride slow brow >:D

Thank you for the tips to save some weight. I was thinking thou.

All Lithium batteries I have looked at does not seem to have a BMS (battery monitoring system). And many of the manufacturers don't specify the battery chemical type. That means If they use lithium polymer or lithium Ion batteries without a BMS they are able to catch fire if the pack becomes in balanced or the voltage regulator breaks and puts out more than 14.5Volts. YOU DON'T WANT THAT!!

The logical is that they use LiFePo4 chemistry battery types that wont catch fire that easy. And if they don't use a BMS in the pack they should make it a 4 cell pack. 3.3V x 4 = 13.2V nominal.

So a LiFePo4 -4 cell pack should be charged to 4 x cell maximum voltage = 4 x 3.6V = 14.4V That is about what the voltage regulator should put out from the bike. (I have not tested on my bike!!)

--> If that is the case you are able to easily build your own LiFePo4 pack really cheap without a BMS and plug it to the bike. Or buy a hobby LiFePo4 4cell pack of the shell and plug it in to the bike.

For example, this pack that should be able to start a bike with 160A: ZIPPY Flightmax 4200mAh 4S2P 30C LiFePo4 Pack
Spec:
Capacity: 4200mAh
Voltage: 4S2P / 13.2v
Discharge: 30C Constant / 40C Burst
Max Charge Rate: 2C
Weight: 558g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 140mm x 45mm x 46mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: 5.5mm Bullet-Connector



Am I wrong, did any body test this??>:D
 
#16 ·
I needed a new battery for my Duke 200 (2012) and ordered a Magneti Milrelli MM-ION-8 o replace the Yuasa YTX9BS that is the standard KTM fit if I'm not mistaken, well at least in Asia.
Price is about 180 US in Thailand.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I've posted here before about my Lithium Iron-Phosphate battery fetish. I've put Shorais in every bike but our '56 Velocette, where a 4 cell Ballistic just fits in the battery case. Battery Tender sells their own version in sizes big enough for cars; I took 20 pounds off the nose of our MX-5 with one. I have a wall wart Tender that I swap between them just for peace of mind, but it's not really needed unless you have some parasitic loss and don't ride very often.

The Shorai instructions address cold starting. These batteries produce heat when discharging, so in cold weather you should turn the ignition (and headlamp) on for a minute or two before hitting the button. When it was cold (SoCal "cold") my Buell XB12 would just take two button pushes to fire up, for the same reason. It's also obvious that shorting one would be a Very Bad Thing.

Remember that you'll need a shorter strap as the battery is (typically) smaller. I found one from an old Honda on fleabay, will try to find that post.

And here she is:
NOS HONDA RUBBER BATTERY STRAP XL 175 250 350 CB VF VT ST90 CB360 CB500T CX500 #290926200549

The item number is probably old, as this post is from middle of last year.
 
#18 ·
Lithium batteries are well worth it , and lately the prices of these have been coming down considerably . As I will have to go back to work this Monday , I just had a go at starting my little Duke I abandoned for several months to spend time with a nice white and blue Husky " thumper " . Well ... one single push on the starter button and it was purring like a happy cat . I remember exactly the same time last year I needed to put the stock battery on the charger after I pushed that starter button which only returned a faint " click " followed by " ( not ) ready to race "
 
#26 ·
That's really cool @bofred!

Have you tested it at all? Even plugged it into a voltmeter & data logger to check and monitor its behaviour over a short period of time? I think it's a cool proof of concept, but I'd be a little apprehensive about putting something like that into my bike completely untested, you know? I understand that it's electrical and that you probably understand how it should behave and in theory it will behave that way, but I would personally like to double check all that kind of stuff before throwing it in.

I also have a completely unrelated question for anyone who's got a Li-ion battery, have any of you maintained/charged these batteries with a NOCO genius battery charger ? I know they have a Lithium battery mode, but I can't find any testimonials as to their effective use online and I'd like to be sure before slapping it on there and risking an explosion or fire. Cheers in advance guys & gals!
 
#28 ·
Yes its fun testing things.>:D I'm a hardware tester by profession.
But I'm not super worried. If only my choice of cables and my welding skills is good enough the battery is going to be long lasting and oversized for the bike. I was tempted to use only 4 cells but when its cold its nice to have some over capacity.
See cell spec: http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/6610.pdf

I made a Volt meter besides the clocks so that I'm able to monitor the battery over time. No data logging, just a small meter. No initial load tests, just testing by riding (and spec. testing ;) V18D 0.28 inch Green LED DC Voltmeter Module-1.80 Online Shopping| GearBest.com

Its still winter here and I have to wait a couple of weeks but I started the bike when the weather was warm, 5 C deg. and the battery has a lot of power. The first impression is that its more powerful than the default battery.

"
The cranking power is 240A and the maximum charging is 20A up to 14.6V.
Voltage regulator on my bike is 14.4V.
Use a 4S balance cable for maintenance balancing of the cells once a year. I use the Imax B6 charger. There is a flat cable opening in the case for this cable.
Glue the battery case together and make sure cables are secured inside the case. Weight is about 750g (standard led battery 12Ah on my bike, Duke 390 is about 4 Kg --> edit: 3.36Kg)
L = 111, W = 57mm, H = 83mm
Use high load cable and connector from this battery. I use the XT90 connector rated 90A continuous load...> edit, I took the connector away and soldered rings for the original bolt instead.

12V Motorcycle starter battery, 8S Lithium 26650 cell, hard case by bofred - Thingiverse

"


Just for the sake I also removed the pinion pegs to save another kilo..

PS. The LiFePo4 lithium cell does not charge at the same voltage as LiIon cell that usually charges to about 4.2V. Check your lithium battery charger and the type of cells you have before charging.



That's really cool @bofred!

Have you tested it at all? Even plugged it into a voltmeter & data logger to check and monitor its behaviour over a short period of time? I think it's a cool proof of concept, but I'd be a little apprehensive about putting something like that into my bike completely untested, you know? I understand that it's electrical and that you probably understand how it should behave and in theory it will behave that way, but I would personally like to double check all that kind of stuff before throwing it in.

I also have a completely unrelated question for anyone who's got a Li-ion battery, have any of you maintained/charged these batteries with a NOCO genius battery charger ? I know they have a Lithium battery mode, but I can't find any testimonials as to their effective use online and I'd like to be sure before slapping it on there and risking an explosion or fire. Cheers in advance guys & gals!
 
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