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15 minute idle ECU reset / engine running problems

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157K views 56 replies 34 participants last post by  KTMasean  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Shamelessly copied and adapted from another forum. If you have engine running problems, try this first.

It's good if you can solve several problems with one answer. Those who are interested, please keep reading:
  • For those of you who must service your 390 when no KTM dealer is near.
  • If you have unusually low gas mileage, and you think it’s because of your driving style, you should perform the following procedure.
  • If your idle is too high or too low, this can procedure can help with this issue. Other positive results can be achieved for engines that die when you are stopped or at low RPM or have a high idle.
  • If you have to constantly rev the engine during cold winter starts just to keep it running, this procedure can help.
  • If you have made any modifications to the input sensors, air intake, or exhaust.

The solution may lie in the acquisition of new parameters. It may sound complicated, but it is not. The low cost is out of proportion to the possible improvement.

Prepare for the procedure:
  • The fuel tank must have enough gasoline to complete the process.
  • The procedure is to be performed outdoors as a safety precaution.
  • Do it somewhere where it won't disturb your neighbours.
  • The vehicle and the owner must be in a cool ambient temperature environment.
  • A clock must be present.
  • The bike must not be on its side stand, so sit still on it, or put it on a paddock stand with the side stand up.

What is to be done:
  • The 390 is on a paddock stand and/or vertical.
  • The engine must be cold.
  • It should be a cool ambient temperature when performing the procedure.
  • Start the bike and let it idle for 15 minutes.
  • Do not touch the bike while it’s idling: Do not operate the throttle or other functions.
  • Do not let the bike idle for less than 15 minutes or more than 16 minutes.
  • If the bike stops, restart the 15 minutes again.
  • Should the procedure be incomplete or faulty, it must be repeated again 100% accurately or you can take it to the KTM dealer for a faster resolution.
 
#2 ·
I have to ask MJ. Do you put any credence in this procedure ? After loading an aftermarket tune in my Mustang GT and noticing no change, I was instructed by the company to do the same procedure so the ECU could relearn.
WHAT ?
 
#9 ·
Which would be misinformation, you have to switch off between the 15 and 16 minute mark, many choose 15:30. The last time I did it the fan came on at 7 minutes, which might be ambient temperature / thermometer related, but who knows?! ;)
 
#11 · (Edited)
I've done this previously and it gave me good results for a few weeks, then the bike returned to it's former misbehaving self at low revs...
Issues related to permanency could be due to the time it takes to learn, with a "dirty" reset it takes longer to learn and the rider may perceive this as it returning to its former state. If you are finding this to be an issue, take it to the dealer for a "clean" reset with the KTM Diagnostic Tool.
 
#12 ·
I am REALLY sceptical about this whole thing - can't see any logic in it, but my level of knowledge may not be upto the mark. However, I noticed plenty of articles and forum post talking about this. Here is a quote from an Alfa Romeo owner (this guy's car seems to have become completely new!!!! -

My GT 2.0L JTS has been idling a bit rough recently, and it felt like a few of my horses had flown south for the winter. In addition, my climate insisted on only blowing hot air, no matter what temp I dialled in.

Having trawled through various threads, the ECU reset fix was mentioned several times as a cure for both symptoms.

So, today being a quiet day in the Christmas break, I decided to attempt the ECU and throttle re-set procedure -which is as follows if you haven't seen in other threads :

1. Disconnect battery for 45 mins
2. Reconnect battery, and turn ignition to MAR for 90 secs
3. Turn off and leave 90 secs
4. Start engine WITHOUT pressing throttle and let the car idle for 15 mins (I repeat, do not touch the throttle whilst the car is idling)
5. Turn engine off and leave for 10 minutes
6. Start the car and go for a drive, using a number of styles (eg town, motorway, thrash etc)

So I did this, and my GT is reborn ! Faster, smoother, more torqier, even idle - it's bloody fantastic ! I can't believe how different the whole car feels.

It nearly cured the climate problem (well it blows a bit cooler) so if anyone has any tips on how to fix, let me know.

But the cherry on the icing on the cake was something I didn't expect, it seems to have cured my 'stepping' drivers window problem that I had given up on !!

Now the driver's window goes up and down as smoothly as the proverbial baby's bum.

So, if you're thinking of trying the ECU/Throttle reset and you have a hour or two on your hands this festive break, give it a go - it might work miracles for you to !
 
#16 ·
Something that MAY be happening regarding regression to "old" tune after a reset: power disruption to the ECU by removing or disconnecting a battery cable or main fuse. Many ECU's have more than one RAM module to store and retrieve data from just like any computer motherboard. It may or may not have a battery or capacitor to augment main battery system voltage. Many passenger vehicles today require the use of a memory saver when the electrical system is being repaired. It's very common for mechanics to fail to take this precaution, and the results are not pretty. In a simpler system like KTM's a memory saver isn't mandated but power disruption to the ECU could quite possibly trigger a base map restoration and possible loss of modified settings. A "Hard Reset" with a programmer would be more expedient with a better chance of success than a "Soft Reset" simply because a re-burned ROM chip is permanently altered and adaptive ROM is constantly being recycled or refreshed at a high frequency rate. Adaptive ECU function is a beautiful thing which can adapt to MINOR changes in fuel quality, air temp and density and so on but think of it as a cane, not a foundation, particularly if engine operating parameters are being modified substantially. Since this bike suffers from acute lean fueling from the factory having a base map with enriched fueling such as the Akrapovic software should be an initial tuning approach and build from that with a piggyback ECU or tuning device IF needed. I suspect in most cases additional fueling enhancements won't be needed unless it's a track-only bike.

Pete
 
#17 ·
..Since this bike suffers from acute lean fueling from the factory having a base map with enriched fueling such as the Akrapovic software should be an initial tuning approach and build from that with a piggyback ECU or tuning device IF needed...
The Akrapovic map will not address the lean condition in the closed loop, since its an OEM supplied part and the emissions regulatory requirement would still be in place, hence only fuelling in the open loop would be changed to be richer. In other words, the closed loop A/F ratio would still need to be 14.7:1 even with the Akrapovic map.
 
#19 ·
Shamelessly copied and adapted from another forum. If you have engine running problems, try this first.

It's good if you can solve several problems with one answer. Those who are interested, please keep reading:
- For those of you who must service your 390 when no KTM dealer is near.
- If you have unusually low gas mileage, and you think it’s because of your driving style, you should perform the following procedure.
- If your idle is too high or too low, this can procedure can help with this issue. Other positive results can be achieved for engines that die when you are stopped or at low RPM or have high idle.
- If you have to constantly rev the engine during cold winter starts just to keep it running, this procedure can help.
- If you have made any modifications to the input sensors, air intake or exhaust.

The solution may lie in the acquisition of new parameters. It may sound complicated, but it is not. The low cost is out of proportion to the possible improvement.

Prepare for the procedure:
- The fuel tank must have enough gasoline to complete the process.
- The procedure is to be performed outdoors as a safety precaution.
- Do it somewhere where it won't disturb your neighbours.
- The vehicle and the owner must be in a cool ambient temperature environment.
- A clock must be present.
- The bike must not be on its side stand, so sit still on it, or put it on a paddock stand with the side stand up.

What is to be done:
- The 390 is on a paddock stand and/or vertical.
- The engine must be cold.
- It should be a cool ambient temperature when performing the procedure.
- Start the bike and let it idle for 15 minutes.
- Do not touch the bike while it’s idling: Do not operate throttle or other functions.
- Do not let the bike idle for less than 15 minutes or more than 16 minutes.
- If the bike stops, restart the 15 minutes again.
- Should the procedure be incomplete or faulty, it must be repeated again 100% accurately or you can take it to the KTM dealer for a faster resolution.
I just did all of this, shut it off/ took key out, turned back on and it stil has the dying on idle" curse... died about 5 minutes after restarting.
 
#20 ·
Ignorance is bliss. This worked for some and not for others. I think its well established knowledge by now that the bike dying is due to a lean condition in the closed loop. Not knowing where you're from doesn't help, but loading the EU base map seems to be the latest in fixing some of the problems with fuelling. Otherwise get a Bazzaz or PCV and get it dyno tuned.
 
#21 ·
ok. i can see the point at 15 minutes idle.

But isn't better before doing that to unplag the battery for at least 1 minute? Somes ECUs reset, by this procedure.

Also is it possible to confirm that 390 has a BOSCH ME17.9.8 TC1762 KTM ecu unit?

How meny seconds are needed battery off for reset?

Final question? how much more inlet flow can handle the
BOSCH ME17.9.8 withoot changing the open loop afr values?
 
#23 ·
Finally got around to trying this after 2500 miles. Frankly, I was a bit skeptical, but it has made a difference. Less jerking around at low rpms and I can carry each gear about 5 mph lower without the engine protesting. Until and/or unless I do any mods (exhaust, airbox, etc) this seems to have done the trick. If it doesn't stick permanently as some have reported, I don't see any big inconvenience in having to repeat it periodically. However, since apparently big brother is out to get the aftermarket, I may have to buy an exhaust and ECU piggyback just in case! ;)
 
#24 ·
yes, the 15 minute idle seams to help especially after small modifications. And in order to answer my questions, after installing the Κ&Ν air filter and after the 15 minute idle process, i haven't noticed any change in the AFR values at open loop. This means that the stock ECU can manage small mods such as exhaust or air filter replacement (in my opinion not both), if the 15 minutes idle procedure is made after the installation.
 
#25 ·
I have done the reset like 4 times (twice 2015 and twice 2016) and the effect is null. The bike is the same with no improvement or perceptible change.

I did it because low fuel economy. The problem appears every winter and disappear entering in the hot season so now it doesn't worry me anymore.

That 15 min idle reset is in my experience useless and i believe that many of you are just feeling the placebo effect.

That's what i can say after 10.000.

Saludos.
 
#26 ·
Dear all ECU gurus.
I have tried, several times, to perform this procedure as my engine revs way too high after fitting a DNA air filter
Put the stock air filter back, still revving too high (5-6,000 rpm)
Bought a PowerTronic ECU fitted this (first forgot one plug at the injector) and started the bike with ECU in place and connected.
Stand up, not touching the throttle, engine runs around 7,000 rpm within the first 30 seconds.
Thinking this not too favourable on a cold engine I switch it off.
Disconnect the ECU and replace this with the supplied "dummy".
Engine starts runs 1,500 - 2,000 for the first minute then revs up to 7,000+ again.
With a relatively cold engine (it is around 24C here in the morning cool) I feel having it run for 15 minutes at 7,000 so rpm is not what I supposed to do.
Also, the fuel gauge shows no bars and the dial reads "low fuel" which is not the case, the red engine warning light remains engaged (not the centre red-light).
The general warning light remains engaged but this will be due to it reading "Low Fuel" which is not the case.
Any advice other than sending me to a dealer which is not an option?
Cheers,
 
#27 ·
Is it possible to remove all the modifications and start from there?
Any issue with the throttle cable or twist grip?
Maybe there is air leaking somewhere around the throttle body? If extra air can enter then the ECU will likely add fuel to prevent over lean running and this will make the engine rev - and almost certainly generate a fault code/management light.
 
#28 ·
Dear AndyB,
Thanks or the input.
I removed all the mods and tried the 15 minutes procedure only with the same results.
You might be right in the suggestion that the airbox is damaged somewhere as I can see the cover screws the plastic broken away as well.
When fitting the shock mudguard, I had to lift the box.
Undoing the 3 retaining bolts may have opened up some cracks/holes.
This bike is from 2012, has been in the tropics all her live so the UV might have gotten to it.
Will try to order a new box in Bangkok.
 
#29 ·
If the airbox is not in the natural position it might be putting stress on the throttle body also lifting that part. Check for a leak somewhere around the body and where it joins the cylinder.
I think a leak in or after the throttle is more likely to create the high revs.
Good luck with the fix.
 
#30 ·
Sounds like an air leak to me, had the same thing happen after removing the charcoal canister. Once I got the vacuum port on the throttle body sealed, it went back to normal. However, after the reset the next time I turned on the ignition I got the "53" error code. Plugging the solenoid back in and repeating the reset cleared the code.

BTW my try at replacing the solenoid with a resistor resulted in smoke coming from under the fuel tank...:eek:
That little 1/4 W thing had turned into charcoal, duh. Later today I will measure the current draw from that solenoid and find a more appropriate resistor. Meanwhile, I've bobbed the solenoid to make it a bit smaller and will tie it under the tank.

I am becoming quite experienced at R&Ring the tank cover....
 
#32 ·
Fooling ecm during 15 min idle thingie?
Gurus,

What are your opinions on running the 15 min 30 sec idle dance with the bike setup lean? As is open airbox, and (aftermarket) muffler w/out db killer, then after the 15.5 min wait, lid back on, insert inserted and for good measure some more noise and flow restriction (pipe with holes inside of the pipe already in there with holes.


I know about the tuners. I am interested in how the bike figures mapping in areas outside of idle during the 15.5 min reset.
I have already done the above.
Test rides in these low temps (50s) at this age (50s) don't happen anymore.
 
#33 ·
Fooling ecm during 15 min idle thingie?
Gurus,

What are your opinions on running the 15 min 30 sec idle dance with the bike setup lean? As is open airbox, and (aftermarket) muffler w/out db killer, then after the 15.5 min wait, lid back on, insert inserted and for good measure some more noise and flow restriction (pipe with holes inside of the pipe already in there with holes.


I know about the tuners. I am interested in how the bike figures mapping in areas outside of idle during the 15.5 min reset.
I have already done the above.
Test rides in these low temps (50s) at this age (50s) don't happen anymore.

Now that is an interesting thought... I'm curious about this as well, how does yours feel setup this way?
 
#36 ·
"initialisation procedure"

- The bike must not be on its side stand, so sit still on it, or put it on a paddock stand with the side stand up.
It does appear to be important to have the bike vertical. I had done the initialisation with it on the side stand and it was starting sluggishly from cold.

This morning I ran the 15 minute initialisation with the bike upright
- it is now starting better, idling more smoothly and using less fuel ==> :70 mpg after a swift 90 miles on country roads revving it to 8,000 to 9,500 on gear changes >:D
 
#37 ·
Performed the 15 minute ECU reset today after fitting a DNA Street airfilter. Sidestand up, on the paddock stand in the garage on a cool day. Doors ajar for some crossflow breeze, of course. Net result is a great burbly exhaust note, very smooth acceleration and no flat spots at all. I had noticed an increase in vibes since de-baffling the stock exhaust, with an obvious increase in sound levels. This seems to have smoothened out somewhat with the airfilter and reset, leaving a fantastic note. No great change in fuel consumption noted, sitting around 3.5l/100km by the dash’s calculation for medium paced, open road riding. There is also an enhanced surge in the midrange from 5-7,500 rpm but this may just be due to the smoother feel.