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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi Everyone,

The RapidBike EVO is a self-tuning piggyback ECU module made by Dimsport in Italy. It comes with a base map to get you started & will self-tune over the next 300ish km.

One EVO model is firmware-upgradeable so if you buy another brand/model of bike and buy the appropriate harness you can re-flash it to suit the new bike. I bought the 'exclusive' model which is quite a bit cheaper but can only be used on a 390 Duke or RC.

I ordered through an Australian supplier who didn't have it in stock, but delivery from Italy through to me only took 1-1/2 weeks. Good service !

In the box was the RapidBike module itself (in a sturdy diecase metal case), a harness for the Duke 1 x Posi-Tap connector, stickers & printed instructions. I was also expecting a USB cable so I could connect it to my PC but one wasn't present. The guy I bought it from is looking into this for me but one's not needed to get it working so I went ahead fitting it.

The printed instructions were good enough even though they were photocopied, and the harness was easy to route 'coz it was quite flexible. The only comment I can make is I wished the TPS signal wire was just 1" longer... it would have made it musch less fiddly to connect.

A write-up of the install for anyone who might come after me is available here:

[url] http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=66760839278689778269 [/URL]
Hopefully it'll stay alive for quite a while :)

While I had the bike apart I also fitted an open airbox lid.

Riding Impression.

WOW... what an improvement at < 6000rpm. The low-speed jerkiness crap has 100% gone. I also tried to get it to stall while taking off when it was cold (which it used to do sometimes) but no dice. As well as that it now idles smoothly without hunting like it used to. Changing down and going around a roundabout etc. is no longer a case of juggling gears & throttle to avoid the surging... it's smooth as a baby's bottom.

When moving i's smooth, torquey & pulls from low RPM. I went for a ride on my favourite route & got held-up behind a pack of cyclists. I sat happily behind them for 1 km doing 20kph (12mph) in 2nd gear... something I wouldn't dream of doing before. I also find I'm cruising 1 gear higher than I used to & can roll-on without any spluttering or having to go down a gear.

At higher speeds you can also feel it's better, smoother, torqueyer (is that a word?) but not such a dramatic improvement like lower speeds. I do expect it'll get better the longer it self-tunes though.

Satisfaction Rating - 100%. I'd suggest everyone spend their $'s fitting an ECU piggyback well before spending money on an exhaust.

Price-wise its a little cheaper than PCV or Bazzaz self-tuning options but I cannot say one is better than the other. The main reason I went with RapidBike is their reputation in Europe & the fact that there's an agent here in Australia who has fitted many of them.

I'm off for another ride >:D
 

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Phil, I'm glad you are pleased with this unit. Good to know there is another viable option on the market. The fact that you are seeing significant improvements in engine performance/behavior in the low/midrange speaks well for this device as something useful for a street rider. I will be interested to hear your impressions as the Autotune refines its settings with more mileage. Ride on!
 

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just saw a ebay listing for rapid bike easy module for our bikes £250 cheaper than evo, from brochure seems initial adjustment by 2 variable pots on back then auto tunes in real time

Rapidbike Easy | Dimsport
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Howdy,

then auto tunes in real time
I don't believe the Easy does auto-tune, as that's the main claim-to-fame of the EVO. I think all you can do is manually adjust the trim pots to improve the AFR either using a dyno with an O2 sniffer or by the old 'butt-dyno'.
 

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I'm hesitating between the Powertronic unit with map switch ( when it becomes available ) or the DIM sport Rapid Bike EVO . Especially because we have the importers for Spain here in Barcelona ( about 80km away from me ) Price wise there is little difference with maybe the Rapid Bike a bit more expensive compared to the standard Powertronic unit .
 

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So, it does closed loop tuning too?
 

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Johann, Take a look at this excerpt I copied from pg. 3 of the RapidBike download PDF. Dimsport explicitly claims that their modules can tune the "Closed loop" performance area, whereas other tuning modules cannot.

quote:
Take a close look at the map values*: all other
brands of add-on modules claim to modify the
injection values, but in reality Rapid Bike is the
only one allowing you to take action and reach
consistent results with re-mapping the most
critical section of the power delivery curve,
that is the range of low and medium rpm where
the lambda sensor is in full control of fueling
parameters.
The graph’ blue area is defined by other brands
as ‘closed loop area’ and as a matter of fact this
section remains ‘off-limits’ for the rider since no
real modifications of injection values are allowed.
Rapid Bike technology puts you in full control of
the game without any sort of limitations, offering
you a powerful tool to be in charge of improving
your bike performance in every riding conditions.
End Quote.

I have not heard anyone else claim control over the closed loop sector, except HardRacing, who say they have developed a program for this that they can install on a PCV. Mariner's ride report notes that the most striking improvements resulting from the RapidBike EVO are in the low to mid range, the area depicted in blue on Dimsport's chart. This suggests that Dimsport's claim might be substantiated. That would be something of a breakthrough, it seems to me. But claims are claims - until proven.
 

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...Mariner's ride report notes that the most striking improvements resulting from the RapidBike EVO are in the low to mid range, the area depicted in blue on Dimsport's chart. This suggests that Dimsport's claim might be substantiated. That would be something of a breakthrough, it seems to me. But claims are claims - until proven.
Low to medium RPM can be open loop if the throttle is twisted far enough. On the 390 Duke if its either twisted further than 20% or if you go above 4,000rpm AFAIK you're in the open loop.
 

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Check the blue chart on Dimsport's PDF and see if it corresponds to your definition of "closed loop."
 

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Check the blue chart on Dimsport's PDF and see if it corresponds to your definition of "closed loop."
I'll have a look, but from a circuit point of view, if it doesn't break into the lambda sensor circuit, and change the signal that sends to the ECU, it can't tune the closed loop.
 

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Had a look, even the Easy ECU cuts into the Lambda sensor circuit, so entirely believable statements. @The Mariner's feedback about low gear cruising also sounds like what I experienced when I had @kevxtx's O2 Controller connected.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This whole closed loop/open loop thing confuses the crap out of me, and
depending on who you talk to it's different.

My understanding is that closed loop is where a signal is able to constantly
be influenced by the output from a sensor and an example is where the signal
to the fuel injector is able to be changed depending on the output from the
O2 sensor.

Where & how in the RPM band KTM have chosen to incorporate such control is
also up for discussion & Johann's comments might be the answer, but in spite
of that a couple of things bother me..

1).. Why did KTM chose to fit a narrowband O2 sensor in the first place ?
Someone described that tuning with a narrowband was 'like trying to see into
a room by looking through the keyhole'. In this day and age I don't know why
this old technology has been used if it doesn't give the accurate
information needed to enable accurate fuel/air monitoring. I know the ECU
must also be able to work with a wideband signal but surely it's not just a
component cost issue.

2).. Why is there a closed loop area & an open loop area anyway ? Wouldn't
the best engine management be able to occur if it was 100% controlled
closed-loop by accurate, real-time O2 sensor readings ?

Back to piggybacks...

Regardless of open loop/closed loop, how, when or where where I have noticed
a couple of things...

1).. My EVO does splice in-line into the O2 sensor wires.
2).. It has made a definite change to running in the lower RPMs at
small/medium throttle openings. I don't have the special gold-plated, made
by virgins USB cable to tap into the EVO to see what the autotune has come up with, but the std. map that comes with the software shows fuel correction from 1800RPM. A section of the map is attached.

In comparison, there's a couple of things I noticed about the Bazzaz Z-FI I
tried to install prior to the EVO. I'm not rubbishing the Bazzaz here, just comparing:

1).. The Bazzaz does not splice into the O2 sensor wires. The factory O2
sensor is removed from the ECU circuit entirely & a simulator/emulator/stabiliser/whatever module is fitted in its place.
2).. Looking at the supplied Bazzaz map in their Z-Mapper program, there are
no corrections applied to fueling below 3000RPM range, regardless of TPS
position. The lean map that Zippy uploaded to the Map Library also doesn't go below 3000RPM.

What does this mean ?

Obviously the Bazzaz Z-FI on its own relies 100% on the fuel map to fuel the bike 'coz the stock O2 sensor is just for decoration. Bazzaz optional Z-AFM autotune module uses a wideband O2 sensor... as it should & in that regard the Bazzaz is better than the EVO.

What I find interesting are the maps. The EVO map seems to show that fueling is controlled throughout the entire RPM range, but the Bazzaz maps don't. Is because they don't feel the need to or because they can't.

I don't know & I'd love someone to be able to provide a definitive answer.

Regardless of whats right or wrong, RapidBike, Bazzaz, PCV & Powertronic all have lots of happy customers so maybe there is no one best solution.
 

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dim sport is a well known company for automotive chiptuning, so i am sure whatever they sell is ok.

from what i saw the rapid bike is a lambda sensor trigger, and the EVO is like bazzaz or power comander injection-ignition controler

closed and open loop is invented for fuel concumption efficiency.

during closed loop (throttle 1/4-fuel efficiency) the ECU is setting the AFR by keeping feedback from lambda sensor.

during open loop (thrattle 1/2 to max - best performance) the ECU is adjusting the injection mostly from TPS and Air pressure sensor without taking into account the values from lambda sensor.

It is better to leave the closed loop as stock ECU, and try to set only the open loop, trying to achive a target AFR at about 13.0-13.5: 1

AFR=Air Fuel Ratio
 

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..It is better to leave the closed loop as stock ECU, and try to set only the open loop, trying to achive a target AFR at about 13.0-13.5: 1...
I don't agree with this statement at all, especially on this bike, it makes a lot of sense to adjust the closed loop as well, whether you add aftermarket parts or not.
 

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I don't agree with this statement at all, especially on this bike, it makes a lot of sense to adjust the closed loop as well, whether you add aftermarket parts or not.
closed loop should be set only when the AFR values are going way beyond 15 or lower than 12 (and stock ECU can no longer correct the AFR, even in closed loop), after installing after market parts that will increase the volumetric efficiency (such as cams or air filters).

I dont believe that the manufacturer will make the bike so lean in closed loop, unless there are very restrict emission regulations, so maybe you are right about the US duke 390.

In my opinion the most important think when trying to adjust injection duration (with a piggy back or remap) is to have already connected a wide band lambda sensor, so that you can see right away if there are corrections needed in closed or open loop. Without a wide band lambda everything you will do will be wrong or it can be accidenticaly righ.
 

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closed loop should be set only when the AFR values are going way beyond 15 or lower than 12 (and stock ECU can no longer correct the AFR, even in closed loop), after installing after market parts that will increase the volumetric efficiency (such as cams or air filters).

I dont believe that the manufacturer will make the bike so lean in closed loop, unless there are very restrict emission regulations, so maybe you are right about the US duke 390.

In my opinion the most important think when trying to adjust injection duration (with a piggy back or remap) is to have already connected a wide band lambda sensor, so that you can see right away if there are corrections needed in closed or open loop. Without a wide band lambda everything you will do will be wrong or it can be accidenticaly righ.
The 390 Duke is known to run lean and hot from factory (not only the US one either), and suffers from many other symptoms associated with running lean. My own testing with an O2 Controller on the 390 confirms that there are vast improvements in fuelling to be had in the closed loop. I'm afraid you're arguing with the wrong guy about this one.
 

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i dont have any reason to argue. If you have tested it with the 02, you re right and i was wrong.

problem now is what to do for mine?

I dont have the money to buy the rapid bike EVO so i am thinking to buy the rapid bike easy (bike stock with dna stage 2 filter and air box modification). Any opinions about this device? prefered settings? i have tryied searching the net for more informations about rapid bike easy but i didnt find anything more than the dimsport site.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I believe leaving the higher RPM's & throttle openings to be controlled open-loop is a recipe for disaster. The whole purpose of the O2 sensor is to check the mixture so the ECU can adjust. If the ECU is purely using TPS & MAF to adjust fuelling it's basically working with a map that's hard-coded into the ECU by the factory and it's not able to take local conditions or any modifications into account.

I fitted a MegaSquirt ECU as a complete replacement for the ECU in my Miata-powered Clubman & it uses a wideband O2, MAF & MAP to control the entire RPM range closed loop.

I'd really like to understand why KTM have chosen to do what they have done.

Duke 200 - Head over to the RC390 forum. I believe the consensus there is just flashing your stock ECU with the Akra map will be OK if you have a DNA/K&N and airbox lid mod as long as you still use the stock exhaust.
 
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