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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey guys,

Looking into buying my first naked bike and really love the look and feel of the 2017+ duke, however, I don't want ride by wire on my bike. Has anyone replaced the ride by wire with a mechanical throttle (ie, cable trottle)? How much has to be done to get it installed? Do you have to replace the throttle body and all the cables? Can it be done? Also, can you put the older non-slipper clutch in it or do they have an aftermarket one that isn't a slipper?

Thanks in advance!
 

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I've never heard about it being done. I suspect it would require a lot more than just replacing hardware - the ECU must be completely different. On 2017+, the ECU receives a signal about your desire to go faster and it controls both the throttle and the fuel, in older models the ECU is passively monitoring the position of the throttle and only adjusting the fueling, very different control systems. The sensors will be different, the wiring will be different, I'd guess you're looking on a new loom, TB assembly, custom made cables (will there be room to route them?), and even then you might run into DFI not cooperating, mysterious CELs etc.. Engine swap? Are the mountings compatible? You'd have to look at part numbers...

Out of curiosity, what is your gripe with RBW and slipper clutch?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I've never heard about it being done. I suspect it would require a lot more than just replacing hardware - the ECU must be completely different. On 2017+, the ECU receives a signal about your desire to go faster and it controls both the throttle and the fuel, in older models the ECU is passively monitoring the position of the throttle and only adjusting the fueling, very different control systems. The sensors will be different, the wiring will be different, I'd guess you're looking on a new loom, TB assembly, custom made cables (will there be room to route them?), and even then you might run into DFI not cooperating, mysterious CELs etc.. Engine swap? Are the mountings compatible? You'd have to look at part numbers...

Out of curiosity, what is your gripe with RBW and slipper clutch?
RBW gripes:
  • Feedback and feel from the throttle is reduced
  • Reliability/failure
  • Expensive to fix when it breaks
  • If a throttle cable breaks I can easily replace it myself, even on the side of the road
  • Example: "written by John Acton in February 2010: “Coming out of the long right-hand turn nine at Palm Beach International Raceway, BMW’s new S1000RR did something unexpected. Despite having the throttle pinned wide-open, the bike didn’t want to accelerate. It wasn’t until the lean angle came within 45 degrees from vertical that a blast of horsepower from the Bavarian bullet lifted the front wheel about a foot off the asphalt and hurled the bike down the 0.6-mile straightaway." "
Slipper Clutch gripes:
  • Having full control of the clutch while riding.
  • More wear on the clutch plates
I am sure there is a lot of good reasons to have a RBW throttle, just don't like the potential effects of having one when a throttle cable works just fine.
 

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It sounds like paranoia has set in.
the trouble free miles that have been ridden by motorcycles with ride by wire throttles, far exceeds the miles/instances where there have been ANY sort of malfunction.
Slipper clutches on motorcycles are also proven to be functional and reliable. They don’t just wear out clutch friction plates often, like say, tires!
Pick another motorcycle for your first bike that is not based upon looks!
 

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I have to agree with Whyzee. No problems with RBW. Sure you can find stories, but you are going to find a lot more horror stories about cables, especially about them seizing or breaking at inopportune moments. Feedback has nothing to do with cables or lack of them.
 

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l've got a 2019 Duke 390 and have never had any issues with the throttle action.
ln fact l never notice it, which is always a good sign.
 

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Hey guys,

Looking into buying my first naked bike ...
Buy the kind of bike you like without any modification. And if you want add some stickers to make it look the way you like. What you plan to do is like buying a sports car and then change it to a pickup. It won't work!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks everyone for your opinions but I didn't ask for them, I was looking for factual information on how to change out those parts. I know what I want and if I can't get it on the 2017 or newer models then I will go with the older model.
 

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RBW gripes:
  • Feedback and feel from the throttle is reduced
  • Reliability/failure
  • Expensive to fix when it breaks
  • If a throttle cable breaks I can easily replace it myself, even on the side of the road
  • Example: "written by John Acton in February 2010: “Coming out of the long right-hand turn nine at Palm Beach International Raceway, BMW’s new S1000RR did something unexpected. Despite having the throttle pinned wide-open, the bike didn’t want to accelerate. It wasn’t until the lean angle came within 45 degrees from vertical that a blast of horsepower from the Bavarian bullet lifted the front wheel about a foot off the asphalt and hurled the bike down the 0.6-mile straightaway."
Seems like you're conservative about technology in bikes in general. I'm not gonna try and convince you about anything, it's your bike after all. Do what you feel like doing, that's what motorcycling is all about :)

I'll respond with counterarguments for the sake of other readers though, as some of these concerns don't seem valid to me.

Pretty much the only thing that could fail with a RBW setup is a physically severed wire or the ECU. The ECU could fail in a non-RBW bike just the same. The wire, along with the potentiometer - the entire right-hand grip assembly actually - costs 75 EUR (part 93511074000). I've never heard of anyone who had it fail.
On a cable setup, you have more moving parts, more friction, more opportunity for kinks, rust, fraying etc. I've replaced 3 throttle cables on my other bike, a 2015 Kawasaki.
The cable setup has a higher chance of failing (and sending you flying if it happens at the wrong moment).

As for feedback and feel, I don't think there's any feedback to speak of - nobody will feel the air rushing pass the throttle valve, transferred over the cable to the grip.
If you're referring to the immediateness or directness of the response, a cable-operated throttle can be less direct because the ECU has to play catch up in response to the signal from Throttle Position Sensor. You twist the grip, take out the minuscule slack of the cable, lift the throttle valve, air rushes in, the ECU notices the air, calculates how much fuel to inject and fire up the injectors. With RBW, you twist the grip, there's no cable slack, the sensor immediately sends a signal travelling with the speed of light into the ECU which lifts the valve and fires up the injectors in synchrony.

Which set up feels better to the rider depends on the tuning in the ECU more than anything. You can get poorly or fantastically riding bikes with either. RBW is arguably easier to tune because you have more control over the variables, you can actively request more or less air and fuel at the same time, rather than trying to do your best to react sensibly to the TPS signal. The fact that RBW is an simpler system to control is evidenced by the better availability of piggyback ECU controllers for the 2017+.

For what it's worth, I rode both and IMO the newer Duke 390 has a better throttle response than the old one - less jerky, more predictable yet still immediate and fun.

Slipper Clutch gripes:
  • Having full control of the clutch while riding.
  • More wear on the clutch plates
There's no data to support that slipper clutches in 390s fail quicker than the old ones.
Having full control - yeah, with a slipper clutch you cannot lock the rear wheel via the gearbox, you'll need to use the rear brake like the manufacturer intended. That's about the only bit of control you give up that I see.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Seems like you're conservative about technology in bikes in general. I'm not gonna try and convince you about anything, it's your bike after all. Do what you feel like doing, that's what motorcycling is all about :)

I'll respond with counterarguments for the sake of other readers though, as some of these concerns don't seem valid to me.

Pretty much the only thing that could fail with a RBW setup is a physically severed wire or the ECU. The ECU could fail in a non-RBW bike just the same. The wire, along with the potentiometer - the entire right-hand grip assembly actually - costs 75 EUR (part 93511074000). I've never heard of anyone who had it fail.
On a cable setup, you have more moving parts, more friction, more opportunity for kinks, rust, fraying etc. I've replaced 3 throttle cables on my other bike, a 2015 Kawasaki.
The cable setup has a higher chance of failing (and sending you flying if it happens at the wrong moment).

As for feedback and feel, I don't think there's any feedback to speak of - nobody will feel the air rushing pass the throttle valve, transferred over the cable to the grip.
If you're referring to the immediateness or directness of the response, a cable-operated throttle can be less direct because the ECU has to play catch up in response to the signal from Throttle Position Sensor. You twist the grip, take out the minuscule slack of the cable, lift the throttle valve, air rushes in, the ECU notices the air, calculates how much fuel to inject and fire up the injectors. With RBW, you twist the grip, there's no cable slack, the sensor immediately sends a signal travelling with the speed of light into the ECU which lifts the valve and fires up the injectors in synchrony.

Which set up feels better to the rider depends on the tuning in the ECU more than anything. You can get poorly or fantastically riding bikes with either. RBW is arguably easier to tune because you have more control over the variables, you can actively request more or less air and fuel at the same time, rather than trying to do your best to react sensibly to the TPS signal. The fact that RBW is an simpler system to control is evidenced by the better availability of piggyback ECU controllers for the 2017+.

For what it's worth, I rode both and IMO the newer Duke 390 has a better throttle response than the old one - less jerky, more predictable yet still immediate and fun.



There's no data to support that slipper clutches in 390s fail quicker than the old ones.
Having full control - yeah, with a slipper clutch you cannot lock the rear wheel via the gearbox, you'll need to use the rear brake like the manufacturer intended. That's about the only bit of control you give up that I see.
Thanks man! I will probably end up on a 2016 but I thought I might ask if anyone has changed out these parts on a newer one before I made my final choice. I am conservative about technology in bikes to a point. I hate carburetors and will never go back to anything carbureted but I am leery of any of the newer tech. I don't really even like the ABS system, it will probably end up coming off of whatever bike I get. Thanks for all the info though. You were very informative about it.
 

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I'll respond with counterarguments for the sake of other readers though, as some of these concerns don't seem valid to me.

Pretty much the only thing that could fail with a RBW setup is a physically severed wire or the ECU. The ECU could fail in a non-RBW bike just the same. The wire, along with the potentiometer - the entire right-hand grip assembly actually - costs 75 EUR (part 93511074000). I've never heard of anyone who had it fail.
On a cable setup, you have more moving parts, more friction, more opportunity for kinks, rust, fraying etc. I've replaced 3 throttle cables on my other bike, a 2015 Kawasaki.
The cable setup has a higher chance of failing (and sending you flying if it happens at the wrong moment).
Additional to that the KTM RBW has 6 wires which very likely means two potentiometer doing the same and two independent circuits. I am sure the ECU will compare the signals and show an error if they are not the same. So if one of the wires from the RBW-throttle is damaged then this will be shown early.
 

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10mbowle,

Good thing you asked.
This is what a motorcycle forum is for and enables you to make your better choice.
Most probably not worth it to try and convert a second Gen bike into a partly first-Gen.
You can now spend your money on Andreani fork inserts, EBC HH Sintered brake pads and an Öhlins shock :D


Thanks man! I will probably end up on a 2016 but I thought I might ask if anyone has changed out these parts on a newer one before I made my final choice. I am conservative about technology in bikes to a point. I hate carburetors and will never go back to anything carbureted but I am leery of any of the newer tech. I don't really even like the ABS system, it will probably end up coming off of whatever bike I get. Thanks for all the info though. You were very informative about it.
 

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Hey guys,

Looking into buying my first naked bike and really love the look and feel of the 2017+ duke, however, I don't want ride by wire on my bike. Has anyone replaced the ride by wire with a mechanical throttle (ie, cable trottle)? How much has to be done to get it installed? Do you have to replace the throttle body and all the cables? Can it be done? Also, can you put the older non-slipper clutch in it or do they have an aftermarket one that isn't a slipper?

Thanks in advance!
You will want an older model with what you are looking for. The newer models CANNOT go back to prehistoric state. All of the sensors involved with the new technology cannot be taken away to build what you are asking. The ECU will not accommodate what you are asking. I am sorry as well that you are afraid of new technology. I own a 2019 Duke 390 and have ridden and owned many bikes over the years. this is a fantastic motorcycle and very much a great "bang for the buck" buy. You will be hugely disappointed buying anything less than the 2019 or newer Duke 390. The others simply do not preform on the same level....not even close.
 

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There are far more riders enjoying the first Gen Duke then there are the later versions (prehistoric) and I bet many will disagree to your statement that the second generation Dukes perform that much better than the first.
This forum is to help members rather than ridicule them and it would be good if ALL members realise this.
What first Gen Duke have you been riding to make such claims?


You will want an older model with what you are looking for. The newer models CANNOT go back to prehistoric state. All of the sensors involved with the new technology cannot be taken away to build what you are asking. The ECU will not accommodate what you are asking. I am sorry as well that you are afraid of new technology. I own a 2019 Duke 390 and have ridden and owned many bikes over the years. this is a fantastic motorcycle and very much a great "bang for the buck" buy. You will be hugely disappointed buying anything less than the 2019 or newer Duke 390. The others simply do not preform on the same level....not even close.
 

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I don't believe that comparison in performance between first and second generation DUKE's, to be said they are 'not even close' would require the newer ones to have at least 15+ extra horsepower,
they may feel different but they don't perform that much different
 

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If I wanted 15+ more horsepower in a Duke I would have purchased A 690,790, or a 1290 Duke instead of the 390 that I desired. I did not modify the engine/drivetrain Of my 390 because I know that 3 more horsepower over stock means absolutely nothing on the street.
Also, as far as I can tell, the Duke 390 has been rated at 43hp for its entire production run, since inception
 
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