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140 km/h!!!??? Dude, somethin' must be wrong(?). I'm using 16/43, with stock ecu, 2019, and mine has no problem pulling right up to 100 mph... [er, 161km/h, by interpolation]. So what gives?

Not criticizing. Expressing concern.
Actually, I now know what could have been the cause for lowered torque and as a result, top speed. I remember that after I came home from that trip my oil level was very low. It seems that my Duke burned close to a litre of oil on that log hwy trip (750km in the mountains) where I pushed the engine real hard. I did 140km/h top speed on the way back meaning that my oil was already low at the time. In addition, I didn’t change the air filter and it is quite dirty.
Those two factors together probably robbed the engine of enough torque to limit the speed to 140km/h.
 

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Wow.. yeah.. I don't get it.
But ya knowwwwwww...
I guess this, once again, just serves to prove to me, that my life is full of all kinds of inexplicable mysteries.
Personally, I'll take mysterious, any day, over [something I just edited out].

Anybody else to weigh in on this?
I'm at 14 feet above sea level, relative humidity is usually 70-95 %, temp is usually 72-95 F, fuel is Shell 93 US.
I use Esso 91 octane for fuel (Canada uses the US gasoline and octane ratings) and my air filter is still the original dirty filter from the factory. The bike has new Yamalube 15W-50 oil w/OEM oil filter. 8960km on the odometer. My fuel economy is 4.1L/100km on average. What’s your fuel economy like with 16/43T sprockets @DukeofSeven ?
 

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Over the course of 4555 miles, no matter what I do, the fuel mileage stays right around 75.3 mpg.
So, if
75.3 miles = 121.183603 km, and
1 gal = 3.785412 litres...
100 / 121.183603 km = 0.82519415, and
3.785412 x 0.82519415 =
3.1237 litres / 100 km, right?

Recheck against your figures:
4.1 litres = 1.083105 gallons, and
100 km = 62.137119 miles...
so, 62.137119 / 1.083105 =
57.37 mpg on your end.

Right:
57.37 / 75.3 = 0.7618858...
and 0.7618858 x your 4.1 litres per 100 km =
my 3.12373178 litres per 100 km.

Wow! You're right! Something really is askew on the fuel consumption!
You did say your fuel mileage is 4.1 on average, as in, even in flat land driving conditions, right?
And you've only got 5567 miles on the odo...
And you just consumed about a litre of oil(?) on a 750km trip...
And I'm sure you said that fully aware the engine only holds 1.7 litres total, right?

I'd dump all the oil. Every 1600 km under your conditions there.
At what interval did your dealer recommend you change the oil and filters where you live and ride? Just curious.

And, yeah, I totally agree with you about the air filter. I think I changed my first one at around 3,000 miles. Of course, it really isn't what you'd call a rugged environment where we live and ride, (but the filter was done, as far as I was concerned).

I just got back from biking, and I don't think the Lit wore off yet; so I may be a little [over the top?], but I can't really tell. Apologies.
 

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Over the course of 4555 miles, no matter what I do, the fuel mileage stays right around 75.3 mpg.
So, if
75.3 miles = 121.183603 km, and
1 gal = 3.785412 litres...
100 / 121.183603 km = 0.82519415, and
3.785412 x 0.82519415 =
3.1237 litres / 100 km, right?

Recheck against your figures:
4.1 litres = 1.083105 gallons, and
100 km = 62.137119 miles...
so, 62.137119 / 1.083105 =
57.37 mpg on your end.

Right:
57.37 / 75.3 = 0.7618858...
and 0.7618858 x your 4.1 litres per 100 km =
my 3.12373178 litres per 100 km.

Wow! You're right! Something really is askew on the fuel consumption!
You did say your fuel mileage is 4.1 on average, as in, even in flat land driving conditions, right?
And you've only got 5567 miles on the odo...
And you just consumed about a litre of oil(?) on a 750km trip...
And I'm sure you said that fully aware the engine only holds 1.7 litres total, right?

I'd dump all the oil. Every 1600 km under your conditions there.
At what interval did your dealer recommend you change the oil and filters where you live and ride? Just curious.

And, yeah, I totally agree with you about the air filter. I think I changed my first one at around 3,000 miles. Of course, it really isn't what you'd call a rugged environment where we live and ride, (but the filter was done, as far as I was concerned).

I just got back from biking, and I don't think the Lit wore off yet; so I may be a little [over the top?], but I can't really tell. Apologies.
About fuel consumption...
I noticed that you cannot rely on the fuel consumption that’s on the TFT screen. It’s always off by at least 0.5L/100km. I use fuelly.com and calculate it there because it’s a lot more accurate. Also, keep in mind that my muffler is debuffled, so that + Evo piggyback take a little more fuel.
About oil consumption...
I went to the dealer and explained the situation and he said that they get a lot of people who ruin their engines on the hwy. Apparently, under heavy stress all high performance engines start gulping oil like crazy and a lot of people who don’t know that end up ruining their engines way early. He said that a lot of people ruin these high speck engines by oil starvation. I will continue to top up with oil and change the oil at the right time.
 

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Good info, John, thanks!

I wasn't aware about the discrepancy in the TFT reading. I'll hafta' start checking mine manually, and reevaluate that.

As for the oil, I hadn't heard anyone actually [use those words] to report on the situation, regarding the highway reference.
I've also never put those kind of miles on this bike, either, so I've got no real reference for a situation that compares to yours.
Interesting.
 

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Good info, John, thanks!

I wasn't aware about the discrepancy in the TFT reading. I'll hafta' start checking mine manually, and reevaluate that.

As for the oil, I hadn't heard anyone actually [use those words] to report on the situation, regarding the highway reference.
I've also never put those kind of miles on this bike, either, so I've got no real reference for a situation that compares to yours.
Interesting.
I was explained by the dealer that they get a lot of people bringing the bikes back after only 3000miles with their headers destroyed by oil starvation. People don’t understand how important it is to always keep the oil level right in high compression, high performance engines that run hotter than a normal engine, so people ride them with low oil wich is absolutely destructive to the Duke’s engine that naturally consumes more oil on the highway than a comparable bike.
So keep your oil level right, especially before long hwy rides.
(I will be taking extra oil with me on the next long ride through the mountains.)

For fuel economy calculation I just fill up to the top, ride 100km exactly and then fill up to the top again. The number of litres that you were able to put back in is the real number of litres/100km! Simple.
fuelly.com does the same thing and allows you to keep a log, so I use it and log everything into it including the maintenance done, so that when I sell the bike I have a true maintenance record. (I do maintenance myself)
 

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I'm.... a little neurotic. On the oil side.
[by contrast, my roommate is vulcan neurotic about EVerY-thing... but thatz another subject]
[kidding]

My services were at 327, 797, 1181, 1488, 2659, 3455 miles. Or, as KTMasean says, in dark ages measures. 😄

So for the enlightened crowd, I changed oil and all filters at 526, 1283, 1901, 2395, 4279, and 5560 km.
That long span between 2395 and 4279 was mostly because, I was riding very easy for a while, and the oil was staying very very clean.

I'm assuming by "headers" destroyed, you were referring to [cylinder heads?].
 

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I'm.... a little neurotic. On the oil side.
[by contrast, my roommate is vulcan neurotic about EVerY-thing... but thatz another subject]
[kidding]

My services were at 327, 797, 1181, 1488, 2659, 3455 miles. Or, as KTMasean says, in dark ages measures. 😄

So for the enlightened crowd, I changed oil and all filters at 526, 1283, 1901, 2395, 4279, and 5560 km.
That long span between 2395 and 4279 was mostly because, I was riding very easy for a while, and the oil was staying very very clean.

I'm assuming by "headers" destroyed, you were referring to [cylinder heads?].
Yeah, “headers” meant cylinder head components etc. He said that such repairs cost on average $3500 and some customers just decided to recycle ♻ the bike and invest the money in a new bike.

Well, bike related neuroticism is ok when you’re using your own money 😄(If you disregard the extra pollution from all those unnecessary oil and filter changes).
Actually, I was like that too, before I realized that oil is not supposed to look clean when it’s in the engine. Its job is to suspend soot and other particles, so good oil should look black and stay black for 7500km and even then it’s most likely still good. I once sent my old used (8000km) regular dinosaur oil from my car to a lab on the Internet and when I got the results back I had to sit down. The oil was only 60% used. Meaning it still could be used for another ~3000km! And that wasn’t even synthetic oil! (You cannot tell how clean the oil is by just looking at it)
According to our manual oil and filters need to be changed every ~7500km and that’s with semi-synthetic oil. I poured synthetic Yamalube in there now, so it will give a bit more protection against heat to be replaced at a regular interval at 15000km. Changing oil more frequently will not help the engine one bit. This is what the bike mechanics at the dealership said. (So as pouring gas with octane rating of more than 91) I would Save that cash for an accessory instead.
 

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Is it just me, or are others getting emails showing forum thread responses from others... but then when I/you go to the webpage, those responses are not there?

That has happened to me 'twice' now, in this thread alone. I even tried installing and running Chrome. I currently run Firefox.
 

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It may be worse than you first imagined, though, John.
[yes, I saw the email update about my neuroticisms; weird it's not here]

Even though oil recycling is mandatory and cradle to grave in our state, I actually 'saved' and contained every one of those oil changes, along with photo documentation of all the parts used in the process, and those parts also.
Why? Well, lets just say my local dealer filled me full of all kinds of [no confidence in their ability] to successfully warranty anything, if necessary... on the product they were right then selling to me.
I gotta tell ya -- I thought that was a very strange sales technique. 😄

But whut thuh ****, I was buying the bike, not necessarily their [unique] services. Plus, there's a racing firm down here I'm familiar with; their rider is KTM sponsored; they know me by reputation, I've done a bit of work with and for them... and I figured... I could always do a little leaning, all the way upstairs if I had to (if I had a legit issue with the bike).

I like to do my own work too, but the warranty doesn't run out til July of 2021.
 

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Is it just me, or are others getting emails showing forum thread responses from others... but then when I/you go to the webpage, those responses are not there?

That has happened to me 'twice' now, in this thread alone. I even tried installing and running Chrome. I currently run Firefox.
It happens to me too sometimes. For some reason my comment about “neuroticism” is flagged as being approved by moderators, so you will be able to see it as soon as it’s approved. Not sure why it’s flagged for approval thou. Probably because I was talking about another website??? Not sure.
 

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I would change my garage if the mechanics would tell me such stories.

Yeah, “headers” meant cylinder head components etc. He said that such repairs cost on average $3500 and some customers just decided to recycle ♻ the bike and invest the money in a new bike.

Well, bike related neuroticism is ok when you’re using your own money 😄(If you disregard the extra pollution from all those unnecessary oil and filter changes).
Actually, I was like that too, before I realized that oil is not supposed to look clean when it’s in the engine. Its job is to suspend soot and other particles, so good oil should look black and stay black for 7500km and even then it’s most likely still good. I once sent my old used (8000km) regular dinosaur oil from my car to a lab on the Internet and when I got the results back I had to sit down. The oil was only 60% used. Meaning it still could be used for another ~3000km! And that wasn’t even synthetic oil! (You cannot tell how clean the oil is by just looking at it)
According to our manual oil and filters need to be changed every ~7500km and that’s with semi-synthetic oil. I poured synthetic Yamalube in there now, so it will give a bit more protection against heat to be replaced at a regular interval at 15000km. Changing oil more frequently will not help the engine one bit. This is what the bike mechanics at the dealership said. (So as pouring gas with octane rating of more than 91) I would Save that cash for an accessory instead.
 

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I was riding very easy for a while, and the oil was staying very very clean.
Actually, what I meant by this remark was...

I was originally pulling the suction filter and finding it repeatedly collecting a lot of metal flashing, and cotton-like clutch fibers.
Also, those filters seemed to be slightly deforming, not from incorrect installation but from (heating? still breaking in?).

So my thinking was... if any of that flashing accidentally got past or punctured the primary suction screen, goodbye oil pump, goodbye baby.

It's kinda like an old man told me about his tires once, "I'd rather run them 'just a little soft' than be repairing my suspension joints all the time, tires are cheap."

Toward that end, yeah, even good oil is cheap... and I haven't yet had justifiable cause for cleaning/reusing a screen, either. 😄 [but I do save them, for reference]

Eh. According to our parents, we were all just an experiment anyway, right? I'm not proud. But I do love two wheels.
 

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Actually, what I meant by this remark was...

I was originally pulling the suction filter and finding it repeatedly collecting a lot of metal flashing, and cotton-like clutch fibers.
Also, those filters seemed to be slightly deforming, not from incorrect installation but from (heating? still breaking in?).

So my thinking was... if any of that flashing accidentally got past or punctured the primary suction screen, goodbye oil pump, goodbye baby.

It's kinda like an old man told me about his tires once, "I'd rather run them 'just a little soft' than be repairing my suspension joints all the time, tires are cheap."

Toward that end, yeah, even good oil is cheap... and I haven't yet had justifiable cause for cleaning/reusing a screen, either. 😄 [but I do save them, for reference]

Eh. According to our parents, we were all just an experiment anyway, right? I'm not proud. But I do love two wheels.
Oh now I understand why you serviced the engine so frequently. (due to the shavings found on those plastic filter screens). When I did service for my Duke at 7500km I also noticed a lot of small shavings on the plastic screens, but my screens were not deformed in any way, so I simply removed the shavings from the magnets and thoroughly washed the screens with kerosene to make them like new and then I put them right back to serve another 7500km. (I changed only the oil and oil filter) So in total, this bike had two oil changes at. One at 1000km and one at 7500km. Just like it was recommended in the manual. The metal shavings are to be collected on the screen magnets again and I don’t think those screens can ever be punctured. I would not worry about it so much as you have the oil filter capturing a bunch of crap like that as well, so now our engines are broken in there is no need to worry about the contents of oil. I worry only about quantity of oil being right. Keep in mind that if you do the recommended oil changes in the manual any critical damage is covered by warranty, so if the engine seized because of the shavings the dealer should fix it for you anyway.

What I did for my previous bike (Honda CB300F 2015) when I needed to repair something or change a gasket and the oil was still less than 7500km old is I was just saving it in a jar (instead of discarding it) and when the repairs were done, I put the oil back in because it was still perfectly good.

Only a special lab test can tell you the true condition/contamination of the used oil, so I trust the engineers and only do what they say in the manual. Filters are created to filter out all the dangerous shavings, so no worries. :)
 

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Dear Johngalt,

"I was explained by the dealer that they get a lot of people bringing the bikes back after only 4,828.032km with their headers destroyed by oil starvation".
I'd be very, very interested to learn the number of Duke/RC sold by this dealer and percentage (number of bikes) they claim to have this problem.
"8960km on the odometer and my air filter is still the original dirty filter from the factory"
What can I say?
"It seems that my Duke burned close to a litre of oil on that log hwy trip (750km in the mountains)"
Doing tours of 3,500 km through the high mountains of Thailand and/or Laos and so far never burned a drop"
"I went to the dealer and explained the situation and he said that they get a lot of people who ruin their engines on the hwy".
See my Q. at the top.
"He said that a lot of people ruin these high speck engines by oil starvation".
Utter, utter nonsense on our Duke/RC engines.
"I once sent my old used (8000km) regular dinosaur oil from my car to a lab on the Internet and when I got the results back I had to sit down".
Car oil and motorcycle oil (with a wet clutch) are completely different and not to be compared.

"Changing oil more frequently will not help the engine one bit. This is what the bike mechanics at the dealership said".
The oil, especially full synthetic, will be able to cope with longer change intervals, your oil filter does not.

"So as pouring gas with an octane rating of more than 91"
Give it a try and be amazed, our engines run much better on 95 octanes.

Just to address a few of your remarks.
When telling a garage/mechanic that your 1.7 ltr containing motorcycle engine burns almost 1 litre of oil in just a 750 km ride, leaving an air filter element unchanged for 8,960 km and the garage/mechanic not scratching his/her head should set off all sorts of alarm bells.
B.t.w. worrying about the environment as a justification to extend your oil change intervals while sticking 8,960 km with an air filter element and burning 1 litre per 750 km (= 20 litres burned in 15,000km) does make your story to say the least (to me) fisherman talk.

This is why I posted to change your garage, fixing your Duke engine so it does not burn oil (like the vast majority of the 390 riders) changing your air-filter element at least every 5,000km (or annually) will make you a happier Duker.

My 2 cents.




Why would you think that? They recommended to do what the manual said and to keep the oil level always right.
 

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Dear Johngalt,

"I was explained by the dealer that they get a lot of people bringing the bikes back after only 4,828.032km with their headers destroyed by oil starvation".
I'd be very, very interested to learn the number of Duke/RC sold by this dealer and percentage (number of bikes) they claim to have this problem.
"8960km on the odometer and my air filter is still the original dirty filter from the factory"
What can I say?
"It seems that my Duke burned close to a litre of oil on that log hwy trip (750km in the mountains)"
Doing tours of 3,500 km through the high mountains of Thailand and/or Laos and so far never burned a drop"
"I went to the dealer and explained the situation and he said that they get a lot of people who ruin their engines on the hwy".
See my Q. at the top.
"He said that a lot of people ruin these high speck engines by oil starvation".
Utter, utter nonsense on our Duke/RC engines.
"I once sent my old used (8000km) regular dinosaur oil from my car to a lab on the Internet and when I got the results back I had to sit down".
Car oil and motorcycle oil (with a wet clutch) are completely different and not to be compared.

"Changing oil more frequently will not help the engine one bit. This is what the bike mechanics at the dealership said".
The oil, especially full synthetic, will be able to cope with longer change intervals, your oil filter does not.

"So as pouring gas with an octane rating of more than 91"
Give it a try and be amazed, our engines run much better on 95 octanes.

Just to address a few of your remarks.
When telling a garage/mechanic that your 1.7 ltr containing motorcycle engine burns almost 1 litre of oil in just a 750 km ride, leaving an air filter element unchanged for 8,960 km and the garage/mechanic not scratching his/her head should set off all sorts of alarm bells.
B.t.w. worrying about the environment as a justification to extend your oil change intervals while sticking 8,960 km with an air filter element and burning 1 litre per 750 km (= 20 litres burned in 15,000km) does make your story to say the least (to me) fisherman talk.

This is why I posted to change your garage, fixing your Duke engine so it does not burn oil (like the vast majority of the 390 riders) changing your air-filter element at least every 5,000km (or annually) will make you a happier Duker.

My 2 cents.
1. I don’t know how many bikes they processed with oil starvation problems. I’m only telling what the person at the dealership advised to me - keep the oil level correct.
2. Air filter condition depends heavily on the area where you ride and air quality. Dusty conditions or in pure mountainous air will affect your air filter differently. I ride in area wich is not dusty at all, so at 5000km my air filter was not dirty enough (I ordered a new one as now @9000k it is dirty enough). Besides air filter affects acceleration and fuel economy and not the amount of oil burned wich was my main concern. In comparison, the replacement interval for air filter in my Honda CB300F was 24000km or sooner depending on riding conditions. Look it up.
Air filter changing interval depends on your conditions in Laos. My interval depends on my riding conditions in British Columbia, so we’re supposed to inspect it at 7500km and change it if needed.
3. My oil level was stable when normally riding in the city as well. The oil consumption increased dramatically, because I was riding really fast and putting massively more stress on the engine going fast uphill in mountainous area. I was redlining frequently etc wich increased the temperatures in the engine to the point where oil became thinner and was simply burned up. I didn’t have a oil overconsumption problem on my bike riding normally in the city. If you go really fast redlining on the hwy is different.
4. Our engines were made for octane rating of 91 US rating. Octane ratings are calculated differently in different countries so maybe 95 in Laos is the same as 91 US.
Assuming we are talking about high quality brand of fuel; if you pour higher that required octane rating you’re wasting your money. Look it up.
5. If you read my comments again carefully, you will see that I didn’t justify longer oil change intervals because of the environment. I was explaining to @DukeofSeven who “changed oil and all filters at 526, 1283, 1901, 2395, 4279, and 5560 km” that changing oil too frequently (as he did) is not helping the engine one bit. Please read our conversation above again if you wish.
 

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Dear Johngalt,

Thank you for your self-justification post.
I currently live in a Buddhist country where to this post we say "one can only help the ones that want to help themselves"
 

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Dear Johngalt,

Thank you for your self-justification post.
I currently live in a Buddhist country where to this post we say "one can only help the ones that want to help themselves"
I am sorry that you feel this way. I wish you all the happiness and fun riding experiences. You are awesome, man. Never forget that.
 
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